NWC3L - New WarCraft 3 League

@#24 So by using points, which I agree might be more accurate than rankings, you got 302 vs 308 points in the two halves, so practically you proved that the two halves are absolutely even in terms of strength (less than 2% difference). Thanks for your help on establishing that matter :D

#24
ДА ЗАТКНИСЬ УЖЕ ПЛИЗ

@admin please deserve my trophy and my medals to another manager ! I have opponent and concurrence !

The true story is:
Upper half: 1 team from top4, 3 teams from bottom4
Lower half: 3 teams from top4, 1 team from bottom4

--

About your so called "math". Why would you swap? If you want to count them as equal, you should use 7.5. Also if you are counting "penalties" it should start from 0, not 1.

1st vs 6th
5th vs 7.5th
------------
3rd vs 7.5th
2nd vs 4th

top = 0+5+4+6.5 = 15.5
btm = 2+6.5+1+3 = 12.5

So the top part of the grid is 20% easier according to your so called "math" with my fixes.

And to be more precise you should use points, not places:
97 vs 67
72 vs 66
------------
83 vs 66
86 vs 73

To get penalties we should calculate [max(points) minus points]:
0 vs 30
25 vs 31
------------
14 vs 31
11 vs 24
top = 86
btm = 80

So the top part is 7% easier ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

*FIX: The difference in such an anomaly would have been 10 ranking points, not 6.

Let me use a little bit of numbers and pure math to prove to you that in the end this system did make sense, although as I mentioned anomalies were indeed possible (like you mentioned 1st vs 3rd or 7th vs 8th), but they didn't occur.

MKG is 7th and rbr is 8th with equal number of points. So let's say that rbr was 7th and MKG was 8th (just swap the places of these two teams that are with equal points!), here is what you would get as the grid:

1st vs 6th
5th vs 7th
------------
3rd vs 8th
2nd vs 4th

The upper half would have had 19 "penalty points" for rankings (1+6+5+7), and the lower part would have had 17 "penalty points" for rankings (3+8+2+4), i.e. it would have been almost equal. A significant anomaly would have been considered if the difference was 5 or more penalty points, i.e. one of the two halves of the grid was 5 ranking points lower than the other half. Such an anomaly would have occurred if, say, rank 1 team had met rank 3, and then rank 4 and rank 5 teams were in the same half, because at the same time at the other half would have been teams 2, 6, 7, and 8. The difference would have been 6 ranking points in such a situation and would have been considered an anomaly. It didn't occur though :)

FIX:
I think there is a point of randomize, but its too much random imho.

#19,
If you get to top8, then points doesn't matter a lot, because you can place 8th and face 7th whereas 1st is facing 3rd.
I think the point of randomize but its too much random imho.

SweeT, in fact your points are exactly the opposite of how things turned out to be. Additionally, it is untrue that the seeding was random. The top 2 teams from the group stage were seeded.

3 teams fought for the top two spots, and 2 of them succeeded to secure their position as seeded, which means that there was indeed a fight for these 2 spots.

Additionally, the teams from 4th to 8th place are within 7 points from each, and the teams from 6th to 8th position are within 1 point from each other. This means that a system where each team is individually seeded would not make sense, because the teams are almost equally weighted per their results from the season. Thus, while I don't believe the seeding system was intentionally invented in such a way in order to yield these results, it did pretty objectively reflect the performance IMHO.

And again - the system was made publicly known in advance, so any excuse of the sort "if we knew, then..." is invalid. That's like getting jailed for doing something illegal in a country where you didn't know it's illegal and say "Oh, but I didn't know, so you must release me." :)

Either way appreciate all the hard work admins putting into this league. No hard feelings, just just venting my frustration. Good luck to everyone. Any type of wc3 events that happen 14 years after release should be appreciated. :)

@Yosh "To anyone who complains about "what is the point of the group stage with random seedings 3-8", i would argue "what is the point of the group stage where 8 out of 11 teams make it to the playoffs".

Hmmm. '8 out of the 11 teams making it to the playoffs' has a valid point and reasoning behind it though. The teams that didn't win/score as many points as the teams above them in the group stage don't make it to the next round which means there is an incentive to try and win your games and make it to the next stage. However, making the playoffs with 'random seedings' actually doesn't have any rational behind it, and takes away the incentive of trying to win as many group stage games as you can to earn points and hit a high ranking in the leaderboard. The randomized seedings makes all this irrelevant. Why bother trying to hit 1st place, when you can just comfortably cruise to 8th place and be all the same. Learning this in hindsight, we could have gave more of our roster more of a chance to play / rotate our players more and given the top players that play every week a rest to allow more rookie/unused players to fill in some weeks as score was essentially moot in the end. But I don't mind anymore, it's done. Goodluck to all the teams :)

#14, In the first if you know the math try to count how many points we needed to get against rage to take first place. But if you are looking for the truth try it yourself to find out from rage members why they didn't want this to happen while they still had a chances and if our diabolical admin prevented them to finish this season.
And especially to avoid writing crap about "unfair, helping, the situation" there was a stream with casting of lots in the play-off, but it seems you missed it

And the post season complaints start up again. If OwNu being in every playoffs is a record then there is also a record that exists for # of consecutive seasons with complaints during the playoffs! :)

As everyone here may or may not know, I'm the first one to openly call out bullshit for something that is well deserved but I feel like this is a bit unwarranted. The playoff thing was explained many weeks ago even though I was also confused by the actual process until someone explained it to me but it is what it is. To anyone who complains about "what is the point of the group stage with random seedings 3-8", i would argue "what is the point of the group stage where 8 out of 11 teams make it to the playoffs". I feel like this is just an attempt to provide value for as many teams as reasonably possible in the post season while also trying to have it make sense. Whether it makes as much sense as other options for every situation, is a different topic but that is what I took that as. Everyone can back seat admin with the best of them but I definitely respect the time, effort and thought that went into this even if the solution is not ideal for everyone involved. The best teams will play the best teams in the end so it really doesn't matter whether you play them in round 1 or in the finals unless you really care about how you place in the playoffs.

#3
Damn OA, hitting me where it hurts!!!! Why OwNu so ez!?! =D

#6
Yea that sucks when you miss the requirements by such slim margins. On the other hand, you have to draw a line somewhere and there will always be things left on the wrong side of the line.
The funny thing is that this minimum requirement probably hurts my team the most because we literally just seed whoever shows up on any given sunday so the people that had plenty of time in the start of the season don't have as much time now and people who had no time in the beginning of the season are starting to have more time now. When you think about this as a team that has been playing in almost every league available for the past 10+ years you will see this pattern happen more often than you think. While in the short term you may be upset, looking at the bigger picture you will just think "oh well, that sucks but lets see what we can do". If it makes you feel better, one of our best players is the top solo player in the league this season... for another team!
Also, Dx is without evanescence in the playoffs this season.

#7
I also would have preferred to play Dx later on. We always meet too early in the playoffs or end up deciding whether we make the playoffs or not at the end of the season. :(

#14
I can assure you that RAGE did not help anyone in this situation. It was pretty hard for RAGE this season since their players' availablility became quite an issue. It was fairly obvious that this was going to happen but I hope test the best of luck next season since managing isn't easy.
umad and rbr have a few players that can surprise on any given day so i would not go as far as saying that ownu is the only challenge. Plus, if you consider the fact that ownu took 0 defwins at the expense of potential points (completely intentional. we all think defwins are bullshit and don't respect it.), were unable to play some matches out to completion and lost a million points due to penalty points (all our own fault / doing cuz life is real. no blame/complaint, just facts). i'd say that performance wise things stack up better than you make it seem. either way, RNGesus is powerful.
to be fair though i think that you drew the short straw if mkg is actually able to field a team together. pp/defwin aside, mkg is right up there point wise if you factor in performance. For me, this will be the game to watch out for in round 1! I think that all games in the playoffs, that actually get played out, will be interesting and i wish everyone the best of luck.

@ #7 never said ownu was a bad team , i said you dont have to face any teams ranked from 2nd place to 4th place till final. ownu you will be your only challenge till finals. Just seems admins fixed to have put DX in this situation, also having rage def lose to them 15-0 in last week of play, just incase viki or SQK passed them in points?.... why would rage def lose to them last play week ? 1 admin helping another? i dunnno.

I understand and hear you guys, but what we have now was planned and not change.

Agree with [ViKi] SweeT, [Fs] Jehu.

Another good variant is for 6 teams:
1 vs freeslot
4 vs 5
3 vs 6
2 vs freeslot

bOL to all teams! :)

@7 У нас 4 игрока, увы. И то повезло, что ТГВ возвращается из поездки в субботу. Так бы было 3.

i;ve said for ages that is hould be 1st vs 8th , 2nd vs 7th etc. What was the point of earning points in groupstage? do you know how pointless that makes trying to win group stage? We should have just cruised and got 8th place... cos it doesnt make the seedings any different. How high you placed in the ranking has no reward basically.

It is odd to see that people are complaining since the seeding rules have been announced at least since week 6.

Additionally, the rule of 3 matches during the season for a player to be able to play in the playoffs was there since the end of last season when we had the LawLiet-Yumiko-WFZ scandal.

While I question some (a lot) of admin's decisions, these rules have been in place for long enough for anyyone to get shocked about them now.

#1, #2, Was thinking the same thing until last sunday.

#3, #4, So ownu worst team in your opinion? One of the last teams that I personally wanted to meet, but apparently it's fate

#6, Наконец боги услышали наши мольбы и не позволили вам прочитать правила. Теперь нет Алекса, а в вашей профессиональной команде не достаточно 7 игроков, но вот как раз у нас, бомжиков, их целых 5, да и то благодаря админу в команде, который каждый день всех нас обзванивает и зачитывает каждый пункт правил по порядку, резко повышая голос на пункте 5.8. Без этого было никак, ведь игроки у нас на каждом клан варе выходили совершенно разные. Сие секретное правило, написанное на священных скрижалях небесного дворца NWC3L и стало нашим "единственным преимуществом", тут ты правильно подметил.

We start to complain when its done and we haven't read the rules 8D No one to blame.
If I only read fucking rules i would put Alex in 2x2 last match and could use him in play-offs.
So the only advantage Dx have is having admin in their team who is the only guy who have read rules since he was writing them.

GG.

It has been explained:

"top 2 teams get upper and lower slot respectively, other 6 teams will randomly seeded by "imba lot of NWC3L"!"

so the first place team wont see a top 4 team till finals? logic? never seen a bracket like that,..

yes seems like Dx has ez path to finals t.t

I am also confused, shouldn't it be 1st vs 8th, 2nd vs 7th etc.? Otherwise the whole Group Stage would almost be pointless o_O

These team seedings make no sense , upper bracket has 1st, 5th 6th 8th , then bottom bracket has 2nd 3rd 4th 7th ?? any other league or tourney ive done, has 1st place facing 8th place , 2nd place facing 7th place, 3rd place facing 6th place etc etc... this is very strange.